A will and codicil

[CertaxBexley]

A codicil was added to a will in 2019, I have only now seen this codicil.
The codicil names the benificieries as being the only son and his daughter (a grandaughter) but also names two other 'Grandiughters' niether of which are actual grandaughters or have any blood relationship with the person making the codicile.
As such is the codicil valid? (The solicitor who drew up this codicil would not have been given the true/factual information)

 

[Mark T Jones]

Nobody can give an even vaguely informed answer on the information provided.

I would suggest you:

1. Find a lawyer who specialises in probate.

2. Give them ALL of the relevant information.

3. Seek the answers you need to hear, not the ones you want to hear.

 

[CertaxBexley]

Nobody can give an even vaguely informed answer on the information provided.

I would suggest you:

1. Find a lawyer who specialises in probate.

2. Give them ALL of the relevant information.

3. Seek the answers you need to hear, not the ones you want to hear.

A solicitor or other legally trained person could have answered with the info given, FWIW the solicitor who drew up the Codicile was contacted and despite holding a Financial LPA for the individual they refused to discus without that individual being present, who currently doesnt have the mental or physical capacity to engage, hence why an LPA was created originally and registered with the Public Guadian.

 

[fisicx]

Then go find another solicitor.

Even a trained solicitor on this or any other forum would want to see the document before offering any advice.

 

[WaveJumper]

Others are correct here unless you could see the whole document and wording its difficult if not impossible to give proper advice. One question I would start with is who witnessed the signing of the will should have been to independent people, was this the case?

Another question maybe did family members have LPA over financial and healthcare matters before this change was implemented?

Unfortunately the bottom line will undoubtably be if you want to contest the will for whatever reason you are going to have to go down the legal route as others have again already indicated. Then you may need to way up the costs verses the outcome you are looking for.

 

[CertaxBexley]

No one is seeking to contest any will, just require clarification on whether the codicile is valid, with the info given.
The Financial LPA is dated May 2025 and the codicil was created May 2021

 

[Newchodge]

A solicitor or other legally trained person could have answered with the info given,

Then I suggest you pay one for proper advice. This is a business forum, on which you will receive opinions (some informed, some less so) . You need legal certainty.

 

[WaveJumper]

The very simple answer is yes its valid, if its been added in the correct way, which one would assume if done by a solicitor was correctly authorised. The solicitor will have clearly been instructed to add or remove / revise instructions he would not be privy to any other detail.

A codicil is just used as a quick and cheaper way to tweak the main will without going to the expense of completely rewriting. The codicil still has to be witnessed by two separate people so one would assume they felt the person making changes was of sound body and mind.

Other than what you have said above why are you bothered about this

 

[Mark T Jones]

A solicitor or other legally trained person could have answered with the info given, FWIW the solicitor who drew up the Codicile was contacted and despite holding a Financial LPA for the individual they refused to discus without that individual being present, who currently doesnt have the mental or physical capacity to engage, hence why an LPA was created originally and registered with the Public Guadian.

A basic rule of life & business- if you want to get good advice, you have to give good information (a process that invariably involves a lot of questions)

No professional would even attempt to give advice on the minimal information given.

Most lawyers will offer a 30 minute free consultation, in which they will ask those questions and give an initial opinion on likely outcomes and courses of action.

 

[DontAsk]

One has to ask how you know there is no blood relationship if the individual does not have capacity to engage and give information.

 

[WaveJumper]

With many an estrange family these days writing wills need to be done I would suggest with great care. As an example my sister and I are currently dealing with our mothers will who sadly passed a couple of weeks ago.

We knew (as we a close family) when our parents had their wills drawn up one member of the family who they would refer to as a grandson was in fact from a second marriage of my sisters sons wife (keep up I know its Christmas) although at the time of the will being drawn up he was not of an age to change his name legally to what he regarded as his new family (sadly didn't want anything to do with his real dad and his new wife) and be formally adopted.

So our parents made sure he was not only written in as "grandson" which they loved to think of him as, but he was also written in under his "family name" in case they passed before he could legally change it.

I know as mentioned above this is a business forum, and as always situations like these need if required proper legal advice to untangle. I only mention my own story as a guide to, if you have shell we say a complicated family structure my advice as a non legal expert is make sure your wishes are properly documented to avoid any unnecessary confusion.

Last of the family advice - If you have not got a will, my advice is get it sorted and if you need to set up LPA's do that also, the latter can be done quite easily by downloading the documents and filling in yourself very easy to do and a lot cheaper than going to the solicitors I my add.

 

[DontAsk]

Last of the family advice - If you have not got a will, my advice is get it sorted and if you need to set up LPA's do that also, the latter can be done quite easily by downloading the documents and filling in yourself very easy to do and a lot cheaper than going to the solicitors I my add.

My wife’s parents had LPAs done by a solicitor. We did ours ourselves but copied some of the wording. This was flagged as potentially problematic in the future. So it’s not a deterministic process.

 

[fisicx]

We used the online service for the LPA. Really simple to do with no issues getting them authorised.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

You don't really provide sufficient information, but the gift may be valid, despite the misdescription.

There's a doctrine applied to the interpretation of legal documents (including Wills) "Falsa demonstratio non nocet cum de corpore constat" (A false description does not invalidate a clear document).

This means that if the testator intended to pass something in his Will and a court can determine (with the aid of extrinsic evidence where necessary) what the testator intended, then the fact that the testator misdescribed it in his Will does not prevent the Will taking effect as intended.

So in your own case if the testator had, for example, two nieces called Alison and Barbara Jones, and the Codicil said "I leave £50,000 to each of my granddaughters Alison and Barbara Jones" the gifts would probably be effective, as a court would probably conclude that he had meant to benefit them.

But if he had simply said "I leave £50,000 to each of my granddaughters" the gift would almost certainly be ignored, as a court could not say with any confidence that he had meant to benefit his nieces.

So it depends to a large extent on whether or not it's possible to identify the intended beneficiaries from the Codicil with a high degree of confidence.

The fact that the Codicil was prepared by a solicitor is helpful, in that the Codicil will at least have been properly executed. However, the solicitor should be made aware of the situation, so that (1) the file relating to making the Will can be specifically preserved as evidence in the event of a dispute; and (2) the solicitor can place a signed statement with the Will explaining that (assuming such to be the case) the testator specifically intended to benefit the beneficiaries identified as "granddaughters" even though they aren't his actual granddaughters.

 

[MikeJ]

Excellent post Michael.

Out of interest, could the fact that he's incorrectly named two people as granddaughters be used as evidence that he wasn't of sound mind at the time?

 

[Newchodge]

Excellent post Michael.

Out of interest, could the fact that he's incorrectly named two people as granddaughters be used as evidence that he wasn't of sound mind at the time?

Not on its own. A lot of people describe people they care about as daughters, granddaughters, nieces etc etc, when there is no actual relationship. It is very common in the north, at least. A friend's son has always called me Auntie Cyndy, for example, which he continues to do even though he is now 30's!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

How well do you really know the person, at say over retirement age many things of what happened in there early age may have never been mentioned to you and only known to them and the solicitor

 

[Michael Loveridge]

Excellent post Michael.

Out of interest, could the fact that he's incorrectly named two people as granddaughters be used as evidence that he wasn't of sound mind at the time?

Yes, in theory. However, the Codicil was prepared by and presumably executed under the supervision of a solicitor, so the solicitor would have conducted a capacity assessment before going ahead.

There would therefore have to be some extremely compelling evidence to set aside the presumption that he did have mental capacity.

 

[ethical PR]

A solicitor or other legally trained person could have answered with the info given, FWIW the solicitor who drew up the Codicile was contacted and despite holding a Financial LPA for the individual they refused to discus without that individual being present, who currently doesnt have the mental or physical capacity to engage, hence why an LPA was created originally and registered with the Public Guadian.

This is a business forum as already advised you need legal advice from a solicitor.