Shoplifting- Why pay?

MBE2017 · Dec 18, 2019

My youngest daughter works in a major retailer on an out of town Chemist, and they recently lost all security, they shared a security guard between two stores. Consequently they have a daily to weekly thief come in, pick up five to six £40/50 gift sets, who then walks out unchallenged, the staff have been told not to try and stop him.

Today I was in a small chemist collecting a prescription when I heard the staff asking a man to stop, who was rushing towards the door, with several perfume sets under his arm. It appears he found my general demeanour slightly threatening at the door, but even with police called, cctv etc, he was basically allowed to walk away. Normally police never attend I am told, and literally never do anything.

Now in my old days of market trading I would have given the guy several old slaps, to ensure he never came back, and I literally lost nothing to shoplifters, since word soon gets around.

My serious question though comes from a female shopper who was at the till, about to pay for her goods. On finding the lack of any reprisal to the shop lifter, she asked why she was paying?
Is the law so bad now nothing seems to be done?

Mr D · Dec 18, 2019

Its nothing new.

These days businesses are a lot more risk averse.

My wife used to do the banking for a small department store. The instructions she had was if threatened then she was to hand over the money. They had to insist on her following those instructions.
This was late last century.

The shop she worked in years later had shoplifters she wasn't allowed to stop on order of management. Police weren't interested despite being a minute away by car.

Lucan Unlordly · Dec 19, 2019

Times have changed.
Back in my supermarket days we'd stop anybody suspected of shoplifting. An 80 year old granny stopped after she pocketed a packet of PG Tips, broke down and whimpered in front of the store manager and he felt sorry for her. Escorting her to the door, she turned round grabbed my arm, dug her nails in and said 'ha, ha.....thought you'd got me there didn't you sonny, and walked off laughing'. Same outcome different plan.

BustersDogs · Dec 19, 2019

A friend of mine is now a PCSO, but used to be a security guard at Wilkinsons. He would regularly tackle shoplifters and hold them until police arrived.

I work in a job built on trust, that's why I pay instead of strolling out with the good stuff.

billmccallum1957 · Dec 19, 2019

We run a second hand shop that donates 20% of the profits to charity, but we still get shoplifters stealing £2.99 T Shirts and £4.99 jackets (why not steal from M&S and get something worthwhile?).

We do confront them in the shop, retrieve our stock and escort them off the premises, when they get caught enough times they stop coming back.

Onthebrightside · Dec 19, 2019

A couple of years ago I had my bag swiped in a supermarket. Fortunately it was quite a distinct colour and style so I saw the handle of it disappearing into the large bag of the shoplifter before she turned the corner of the isle. I confronted her and got my back back - her response was 'go on, have it then'. I alerted the security in the supermarket and they held her there whilst the manager was called. The manager took me to one side and said the police probably won't even charge her, they will just hold her and let her go, as we won't prosecute. When I insisted that the problem just gets worse if they don't prosecute he advised me that he didn't want to call the police because it was logged against the store.

We had this when we ran a pub, if you called the police it was logged against the pub and when the licence came up for renewal it counted against you. We had people (druggies/drunks) coming in all the time who had done the local chemist for Christmas sets of that kind and when we threw them out the customers went outside and bought them.

It is the same with the address of a property - if you call the police it is listed on the crime statistics and they can be seen on a crime map of the area - so if you are likely to want to sell your house in the future it is unlikely you want to call the police to your property for things like litter dropping, loud music, loutish behaviour etc.

Birmingham · Dec 31, 2019

I guess if it's your own store you'll defend your own property if you care about it enough; and if you're just working for a large corporation, it can be written off as an expected loss, which is easier than worrying about getting sued by staff for telling them to confront someone who is likely to hurt them. Lucky criminals!

Not exactly the same, but on a similar note, when I was mugged 15 years ago, police did absolutely everything they could to avoid it being logged as a crime, from interrogating me on suspicion of insurance fraud, to sending me to the hospital for checkups due to being hit on the back of the head even though I insisted I was fine and just wanted to report the crime and get it over with...

simon field · Dec 31, 2019

Headbutt to the nose, take stuff back, throw cretin into road.

just my approach

alan1302 · Jan 1, 2020

Birmingham said:
to sending me to the hospital for checkups due to being hit on the back of the head even though I insisted I was fine and just wanted to report the crime and get it over with...

Not surprised they wanted you checked out if you had a head injury...nothing to do with not wanting to lodge it as a crime.

Birmingham · Jan 1, 2020

alan1302 said:
Not surprised they wanted you checked out if you had a head injury...nothing to do with not wanting to lodge it as a crime.

didn't have an injury, just got smacked and said i was fine, but they kept me waiting in a hospital for a couple of hours and when it was all over they told me to sleep it off, wouldn't allow me to report the crime which i originally went to them about until the next day, even though it was only afternoon. they also did all the insurance fraud interrogation in the station prior to the wasting further time at the hospital

Chris Ashdown · Jan 1, 2020

It always seams strange to me that shops put there tills at the back of the shop, basically saying please rob me

Jasondb · Jan 1, 2020

Interesting posts above and my own observations seem to agree with most here, I notice on the times I have watched these crime-watch type programs it always seems to be shopkeepers physically defending their products or tills.

Mr D · Jan 1, 2020

Chris Ashdown said:
It always seams strange to me that shops put there tills at the back of the shop, basically saying please rob me

Appears just as easy to shoplift when the till is at the front.

Newchodge · Jan 1, 2020

Supermarket staff, including security staff are not paid enough or trained enough to actually confront a shoplifter.

There was also the unfortunate case a while back of a supermarket security staff member chasing a shoplifter who had bottles of vodka concealed in the front of his jacket. He tripped, fell flat on his front, smashing the bottles and died of blood loss. The employee had to wait some time until the police decided he should not be prosecuted for manslaughter.

Awinner2 · Jan 1, 2020

After 2 overnight robberies at the petrol station that I ran for 5 years, HO decided to install smoke cloak technology. When triggered, it fills the space with very dense smoke within 60 secs. You cannot see your hand in front of your face. BUT I had to ask for a sign in the window advising that the smoke cloak was installed. HO said "why" so I explained that in my view that would be a deterrent by itself. They agreed and put up warning notices in all their sites. Gave me a £100 bonus for the suggestion (only losing £6-8,000 cigarettes each time). Now I see that even their main stores have warning signs up too.

John Hemming · Jan 1, 2020

Newchodge said:
Supermarket staff, including security staff are not paid enough or trained enough to actually confront a shoplifter.

It is not the case that only the police can arrest or otherwise confront shoplifters. I would not, however, expect supermarket cashiers to do this.

Newchodge · Jan 1, 2020

John Hemming said:
It is not the case that only the police can arrest or otherwise confront shoplifters. I would not, however, expect supermarket cashiers to do this.

Only the police hold a warrant to arrest, however anyone can make a citizen's afrrest and hold a suspect until the police arrive. Anyone can confront anyone about anything.

Mr D · Jan 1, 2020

Newchodge said:
Only the police hold a warrant to arrest, however anyone can make a citizen's afrrest and hold a suspect until the police arrive. Anyone can confront anyone about anything.

And if you are lucky the police will arrive the same day to deal with the person you are holding.
May be an hour or two if they are on other duties such as security guard work, marshal work, social work visits etc.

Financial-Modeller · Jan 3, 2020

In response to the OP, unfortunately, many businesses consider recovery from insurers to be less costly and lower risk than the alternatives.

The cost of insurance is obviously added to the prices paid by law-abiding customers.

Alison Moore · Jan 7, 2020

I guess with fear of being sued by the staff if they are hurt in an altercation it's easier to say to your staff not to apprehend them. Having been a business owner myself though I used to stand in the way of shop lifters and none were allowed to leave my store with their goods. Trouble is I bet if you tried to walk out of the store without paying, the staff would call the police on you as you'd be an easy target, but these regular shop lifters will often be up in front of the courts and it's not worth the police or courts time to deal with them over and over again. Such a shame.

MBE2017 · Jan 8, 2020

Interesting responses. When I had my market business I took theft very seriously, too the point of fighting to retrieve the goods if necessary, but it was my business. I took it personally since I was working to support my new born autistic daughter at the time.

I caught one lad nicking £10 worth of stock, and told him to return it and leave, or I would take it off him, despite him having four friends with him at the time. He kept insisting he had nicked nothing, but also would not open a clenched fist. I told him one last time to return it, or get a punch in the face, and I would happily oblige all of his mates if they wished to join in. He threw a punch and I helped him to the floor, his friends decided he was not a friend of theirs after all.

I recovered my property, and escorted him off the market, making him crawl the whole way off the market. I also told him if he ever returned to my stall I would do the same again, since he started to issue various threats. Six years later he walked onto my stall with five mates, and acting like my best mate asked how much an item was. I enjoyed issuing a back hand slap to his face which floored him again, and reminded him I never forget thieves. I also reminded him to crawl off the market, which he did without any complaint. His friends were confused though.

I do miss the old days.

Chris Ashdown · Jan 8, 2020

Maybe we should have a vote as to which one is the idiot

STDFR33 · Jan 27, 2020

billmccallum1957 said:
We run a second hand shop that donates 20% of the profits to charity, but we still get shoplifters stealing £2.99 T Shirts and £4.99 jackets (why not steal from M&S and get something worthwhile?).
.

A few years ago I walked into a Cancer Research shop in Doncaster. On walking in a guy passed me and the staff were in a bit of a fluster. I asked what was wrong and they told me that the guy that had just walked out had stolen some items but they were not allowed to do anything.

I walked out of the shop and stopped the guy. A few words were exchanged but he wasn't having none of it and threw a punch at me … a bit of a mistake on his part as I'd done boxing and kickboxing for over 10 years. He missed me but got several smacks back and the items taken from him, along with some choice words on my part.

Karimbo · Feb 17, 2020

Loss prevention have to justify their use, often if they cant make a case for themselves to regionsl managment, they cant justify the £30K spend in each store for a security.

Theyll find out soon enough with the loss of merchandise whether this was worth it or not.

I mean greggs have store security. Effing greggs!

billmccallum1957 · Feb 17, 2020

Karimbo said:
Loss prevention have to justify their use, often if they cant make a case for themselves to regionsl managment, they cant justify the £30K spend in each store for a security.

Theyll find out soon enough with the loss of merchandise whether this was worth it or not.

I mean greggs have store security. Effing greggs!

I don't quite understand where you're coming from with these statements.

"Loss prevention have to justify their use" - when loss prevention is justification for use of security.

"often if they cant make a case for themselves to regional management" - it's usually regional management that makes the case using the loss data they generate.

"I mean greggs have store security" = I don't know where you live, but here in the North East I have never seen a security guard in a Greggs store.

Karimbo · Feb 17, 2020

billmccallum1957 said:
I don't quite understand where you're coming from with these statements.

"Loss prevention have to justify their use" - when loss prevention is justification for use of security.

"often if they cant make a case for themselves to regional management" - it's usually regional management that makes the case using the loss data they generate.

"I mean greggs have store security" = I don't know where you live, but here in the North East I have never seen a security guard in a Greggs store.

I was speaking based on a shoplifting documentry.

The store security would need to keep a log of every theft they've prevented, and the value of the goods they've saved. So they need to justify to their bosses that hiring them is producing a ROI.

If owners feel that paying a security guard £30K p.a. to stand guard on a store, only saves them £18K worth of losses. Is it even worth having security?

Of course, there are things you can't measure - how many shopfliters avoided going into that shop in the first place because they saw security there.

Greggs has many stores with security, just standing there, doing nothing. Here in some parts of London, schoolkids see greggs as fair game and will pinch the items in the heating cabiners on the shop floor. I've seen one kid slide along the walls out of sight of the cashier to get to the heater cabinet.

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Shoplifting- Why pay?