Is my website "sticky"?

Salima · Jun 14, 2006

If you were a Kingston Local and you came across my site, would you come back? i.e would you use it as a reference tool for local services and information or not?

I would really apreciate a line or two of why you voted "yes" or "no" if you can spare the time. Pls bear in mind that there is ALOT of sections to it and
that is unavoidable so pls if you can avoid focusing on that part! Anything constructive that I can add or change ... I'm all ears!

Thanks very much guys in advance.

Big kiss

Salima

Jun 14, 2006

I've seen your site before, as you know - I think it's generally pretty good. I've yet to find one as comprehensive as this for where I live (Chester). At the moment I'm making do with around 6 sites to fulfil all my local needs! If you can keep it as focused and inclusive as possible, you should hang on to traffic.

directmarketingadvice · Jun 14, 2006

would you use it as a reference tool for local services and information or not?

As a website, no.

It's just another general business directory which contains a small subset of local businesses.

And those businesses aren't there because they're being independently recommended, they're there because they're the ones that are paying to be there.

I'd be better off going to the yellow pages to get a wider choice.

However, the newsletter is a good idea and I'd probably sign up for that to see if it's useful (and, if it was, I'd keep subscribed).

Hope this helps

Steve

Salima · Jun 14, 2006

SteveGibson said:
And those businesses aren't there because they're being independently recommended, they're there because they're the ones that are paying to be there.

I'd be better off going to the yellow pages to get a wider choice.

Steve

Thanks Steve, it does help... but if you look at it from the angle that in my directory there are basic listings for all businesses, it's just that those who have chosen to pay to upgrade their listing to a featured listing, have done so in order enhance their chance of getting business.

Yellow pages/ Yell.com do exactly the same thing, they charge businesses (alot) to upgrade their listings - they dont work on recommendations!

You've only focused on the business side in evaluating the site - what about the community page which provides free promotion for all the worthwhile causes /events or the presence of a free classifieds/dating section section? Does that not hold any weight/appeal in your view?

profitxchange · Jun 14, 2006

For me it loaded far too slowly, as did other pages I tried to access.

If I was alocal I may well put it into my favourites.

directmarketingadvice · Jun 14, 2006

what about the community page which provides free promotion for all the worthwhile causes /events

I had a look at the events and a lot of the events were from last month which suggested to me that it wasn't being updated very often.

For example, in the "Events - Local" section, the 3rd event on the list was for 22nd May. That's over 3 weeks ago.

(and, at first glance, all the events below that seem to be in the past)

With so few events added, personally I wouldn't be coming back regularly.

However, if there were a number of events being added each week, then I would certainly reconsider.

Steve

Salima · Jun 15, 2006

77 views and only four votes so far?....... I can't beleive it!

Not on here surely!

webit · Jun 15, 2006

I just see it as another directory service - the front page was just too busy for me.

Also

Why is there a Restaurant in Worthing in Sussex in your Kingston listings?

http://www.kingstonontheweb.com/directory/showsitescatid-97_cat-Restaurants+-+Vegetarian

cjd · Jun 15, 2006

Well if you're forcing me to vote/comment then I suppose I have to agree with Steve.

It's obvious you've put a hell of alot of effort into that site, but there's still a huge amount left to do before I'd bother using it. The trouble with the town site model is that it HAS to be TOTALLY comprehensive and ALWAYS up to date. It's a huge maintenence problem even if you've got a good content management system and distributed contributers.

I'm simply not interested in a restraunt guide (for example) that doesn't have lots of real user's up to date opinion/reviews - don't forget I already have a fully comprehensive listing of them from the Yellow pages - I want something extra from a web site.

The first thing I want to see when I go to one of these sites (which I don't often because I've never found a really good one yet) is immediate and prioritised local information eg 'what's on today'.

What I get when I go to your site is the vast majority of the screen filled with an advert for yourself - begging people to sign up for you - as a business I wouldn't, because by doing that you're demonstrating that a) you need me not that I need you b)you're not providing content in the most important area of your site that you need to make your site interesting to your audience.

So, is it sticky? no, not in my opinion;but your web site stats would answer that properly for you anyway ;-)

Salima · Jun 15, 2006

webit said:
Also

Why is there a Restaurant in Worthing in Sussex in your Kingston listings?

http://www.kingstonontheweb.com/directory/showsitescatid-97_cat-Restaurants+-+Vegetarian

Thats because for all categories there are National Listings as well as Local Listings, as you can see it comes under the National heading.

May or may not be useful but one of points we make to businesses is that they have a local focus but also national presence on our network of town and community portals.

Thanks for your opinions webit

Salima · Jun 15, 2006

cjd said:
What I get when I go to your site is the vast majority of the screen filled with an advert for yourself - begging people to sign up for you - as a business I wouldn't, because by doing that you're demonstrating that a) you need me not that I need you b)you're not providing content in the most important area of your site that you need to make your site interesting to your audience.

Please can you elaborate on this for me? I'm extremely concerned that it comes across this way to you. I thought the only part when I am actually asking (begging??? is that really how it sounds?) for paid advertising on my home page is where I have stated this:

"Are you a Local Business?

Why not join the rapidly growing number of businesses we already have on board by advertising in Kingston Listings?

In return you will receive the most Unique, Dynamic and Cost-Effective advertising for your business. Contact us now to advertise your business and automatically receive a free advertising bonus worth up to £60."

Does anyone else agree that it sounds like I'm begging for advertisers on my homepage? Please let me know why it sounds that way and if possible what I should do to change that.

Thanks in advance for your time with this. I know that local directories dont rank highly in many peoples opinions. there are several that I get wound up about when I come across them because they dont have any local focus at all but I agree that with the best will in the world it is hard to keep them updated with relevant and current events. Yours and Steve's comments have given me a good slap and I will do what I can to correct this.

cjd · Jun 15, 2006

'Begging' is too strong a word, don't get hung up on it.

The point I'm making is that if you look at your home page the top 10% is your banner and brand and the 30-40% of the 'real estate in the centre of the screen is you marketing to would be advertisers NOT providing usefull information to your visitors.

This means that 50% of your most valuable screen area is given over to you not your audience. You MUST focus first on your audience then the advertisers will come to you because you'll have great content and wonderful web stats to prove to them you are worth advertising with. As a business I wouldn't spend a penny unless you could prove to me what audience I would have.

Think of it like TV - if you put on great programmes you get a lot of viwers; once you've got a lot of viewers you attract advertisers. A TV company never publicly advertises to attract sponsors - it produces content, which create audience figures that can then be sold into the advertisers.

Think of youself first as a content/media producer and secondly as an advertiser.

acp-bob · Jun 15, 2006

Hi Salima
The site is pretty good as a standard directory style and the community page is a good addition.

Try improving the photographs as they are very poor and may be off-putting to people. They may think the whole site operates to this low standard, when it is actually quite good when you look around it.

The selection of photos in the middle are either out of focus (replace with new photos) too dark ( use a photo-manipulation software to brighten them) or not interesting enough ( try to replace with more interesting, brighter pics)

Hope this helps. Cheers. Bob.

Salima · Jun 15, 2006

cjd said:
'Begging' is too strong a word, don't get hung up on it.

Don't be so patronising. Why the hell did you use it then if it was too strong a word?! - what reaction did you expect if you are going to use a word like that?

Salima · Jun 15, 2006

cjd said:
Think of it like TV - if you put on great programmes you get a lot of viwers; once you've got a lot of viewers you attract advertisers. A TV company never publicly advertises to attract sponsors - it produces content, which create audience figures that can then be sold into the advertisers.

Think of youself first as a content/media producer and secondly as an advertiser.

More of a fair statement.... thank you. Understood, mostly agreed and taken on board.

Mike by the Sea · Jun 15, 2006

Hi Salima

I have had a look at the site and I do agree with a lot of what has been said before. I found it quite difficult to find local information that would make it unique. As a past "resident" of Kingston, I was looking for things that would help me decide what to do and where to go etc. The problem is that all the places that I used to go to have either been raided, shut down or changed name. :smile:

I am assuming that a lot of the website structure is based around the UKontheWeb format and is not readily flexible. It can be quite hard to find a specific service or business when you have to go through a few levels of searching and the sub-categories can be daunting. Would it be possible, as in the classifieds, to show how many entries there are under a specific sub-category to save the user from trawling through them all to find a business?

I liked the idea from cjd about a "what's on today" calendar. This would give the site a good reason for people to come back to it regularly. Is it possible to link in with the local guardian perhaps.

One of the things that I am doing in Hastings is to invite local clubs, charities etc. to post events directly on to the site (not hastingsontheweb unfortunately, somebody beat me to it). Another thing that I am doing is to have a reciprocal arrangement with the local business support centres, chamber of commerce, e-biz etc. where they can post events on the site in exchange for a link from their site. At least in this way you might be able to increase the volume of events without having to do all the admin yourself.

The purpose of these types of things is to be able to make the site a one-stop place for people to visit. Maybe it would be worth having a very visible window on the home page asking people for input - did they find what they wanted, what were they looking for and didn't find etc. and perhaps have a monthly draw with a prize - anything to get us lazy ***** to leave some feedback.

Anyway, good luck with site and keep your chin up

Best regards

Mike

Salima · Jun 15, 2006

Thanks for your input Mike,

I know that it is a very busy site and as you have said there is limited flexibility.

In my opinion, there arent really local events happening everyday to justify a what's on today to be honest it would empty for quite a few days! The local events are all posted on the local council website and we have permssion to put these on our site which people can easily access through the "Kingston Events" link. Alot of the ideas you mentioned, my site does do: My community page is also fully editable by people who want to add their groups, clubs news to it and we have featured editors from the local council, the police, university, lots of the local charities and even the BBC approached us about advertising a programme of theirs that was coming to Twickenham. I also have reciprocal linking with the local chamber of commerce and other main venues who have my banners on their buildings.

As you know the directory provides basic and upgraded listings, however I acknoweldge that it is going to take a while to build up a substantial amount of listings, but it really isnt that hard to navigate. If you for example wanted to find "car/bus hire services" in Kingston - you would be there in two clicks - from the home page you would click on "Kingston Travel and Transport" and then sub-category of "Kingston Road". Do you, however still think it's hard to navigate the listings?

I think the problem is that it is quite a busy site and the 4/5 lined links dont help in giving the site a crowded feel. From the feedback I have received I think I should condense the text for these links and focus on highlighting the community side.

So you missed out on hastingsontheweb? Would you have liked to have bought it then?

Mike by the Sea · Jun 16, 2006

Hi Salima

Thanks for the reply. I did find the site was not as user-friendly as it might be, as you say, the search format is prescribed and unless there are lots of things included, the navigation can seem a bit daunting at first.

I agree with you that your niche is likely to be community based. There are lots of sites like yell and others where you can find local services and it will be interesting to see if this changes over time. I suppose that the proof will be the hit rate and hopefully you can use this to encourage upgrading for businesses.

I looked at the opportunity a few months ago and might have been interested, but was beaten to it. I might still consider linking in to the site in the future. I am working on a business to business site at the moment and trying to improve its appeal to local businesses in the area. Hard work, but hopefully things will get easier as more businesses join up.

Again, all the best and keep posting.

Mike

JustOneUK · Jun 17, 2006

PlainText said:
I've yet to find one as comprehensive as this for where I live (Chester). At the moment I'm making do with around 6 sites to fulfil all my local needs!

any chance you can PM me your list of fave chester sites? :tongue:

James.

JustOneUK · Jun 17, 2006

Salima.. i recall a similar site to yours taking 50+ seconds to load on a dial up computer, which dramatically reduces stickiness...

also.. i am interested to know..who gets paid the adsense revenue generated on your site?

James.

Salima · Jun 19, 2006

JustOneUK said:
Salima.. i recall a similar site to yours taking 50+ seconds to load on a dial up computer, which dramatically reduces stickiness...

also.. i am interested to know..who gets paid the adsense revenue generated on your site?

James.

Hey James

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I know you have certain questions and curiosities about the site - if you want to initiate them through a PM then would be more than happy to answer.

Cheers

Rachel · Jun 20, 2006

Hi

A lot of info, if I lived in Kingston I would use it, I live in Worthing, so may take the restaurant tip!

Rachel. pleasuredirect.org

JustOneUK · Jun 22, 2006

Salima said:
Hey James

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I know you have certain questions and curiosities about the site - if you want to initiate them through a PM then would be more than happy to answer.

Cheers

Cool, can you PM me the answer to "..who gets paid the adsense revenue generated on your site?"

Just so you know, I haven't got a problem with your site, it's all good.
although with all the results coming from the database of Tomweb.com why not just use their site instead?

James.

Salima · Jun 22, 2006

JustOneUK said:
although with all the results coming from the database of Tomweb.com why not just use their site instead?

James.

Hey James

Your above comment actually implies to me that you either haven't compared the two sites objectively or that you think my site is more a waste of space than "all good".

Thomson does indeed provide us with the business data for our business listings but they don't also provide:

A self-editable featured business listing consisting of an advertising web page with unlimited images and text for £90 year
A section dedicated to the local community with free self-editing community promotion for all chairites, worthwhile causes, news and events.
Free dating site
Free classifieds site
A monthly newsletter informing subscribers of local events and special offers from local businesses every month
Local jobs/property/car database to search........

.....enough reasons or is it still a waste of space?

Don't mean to come across rude by the way, just trying to apply a bit of factual rebuttal - I know the site has it's limitations and is not everyone's cup of tea - it's "all good".

JustOneUK · Jun 23, 2006

No adsense PM

Your site isn't a waste of space. I never said that.

I do however have Tomweb.com listed in my favourites.

Regards
James.

BlackBerryUK · Jun 23, 2006

Hi Salima,

From someone who did a lot of usability studies and projects on websites, I would say the site is not user friendly. very very over crowded! there are no points of (call to action).

lets take the main homepage for example:

- there is no need to add in the middle of the page that long advert asking businessess to advertise! any one who has a business and comes a cross your site and was interested in advertising would be looking for a link on the page that says: Advertising! <--- that link should then include all the information.

the main aim of the page is to get your visitors to find what they are looking for. The next step then would be updating the main homepage design to include the main key areas. At the moment, they are showing on the side of the page. It would look more effective if the categories were presented in the middle of the page in a nice way, using hover over images.

at the bottom of the page you have (useful links) - remove those and create a page and have them on that page.

The longer the page, the less likely someone will scroll down to see the links.

hope these comments helps.

thanks
Tala

Salima · Jun 23, 2006

JustOneUK said:
No adsense PM

Regards
James.

Sorry about PM - did mean to send it but got carried away with my rebutting.

S'on it's way

Salima · Jun 23, 2006

Salima said:
Sorry about PM - did mean to send it but got carried away with my rebutting.

S'on it's way

You've exceeded your private message quota James so I cant PM you

Salima · Jun 23, 2006

BlackBerryUK said:
Hi Salima,

From someone who did a lot of usability studies and projects on websites, I would say the site is not user friendly. very very over crowded! there are no points of (call to action).

lets take the main homepage for example:

- there is no need to add in the middle of the page that long advert asking businessess to advertise! any one who has a business and comes a cross your site and was interested in advertising would be looking for a link on the page that says: Advertising! <--- that link should then include all the information.

the main aim of the page is to get your visitors to find what they are looking for. The next step then would be updating the main homepage design to include the main key areas. At the moment, they are showing on the side of the page. It would look more effective if the categories were presented in the middle of the page in a nice way, using hover over images.

at the bottom of the page you have (useful links) - remove those and create a page and have them on that page.

The longer the page, the less likely someone will scroll down to see the links.

hope these comments helps.

thanks
Tala

tala thanks for your feedback

I have taken everything I've come across on this thread and am trying to put it into place where I have the flexibility to (Firstly by removing the Advertising paragraph in the middle!!). I would, tala, like your clarification on points of call to action. If a link says "find restaurants or cars or hotels, jobs e.t.c" then click here for more. Is that not defined as a call to action. Asking people to add you to their favourites and sign up for the newslwetter - is that not classed as call to action.
I would really appreciate more views on this as I understand the importance of telling people what to do and want to make sure I do this effectively.
In terms of the design - it is a template so I do not have that much manouverability on which links can go where.
Where you have said that it should highlight the main key areas, then one of these is of course, the business directory for people to find local services which can be accessed through the various catgeory headings and these ARE the middle of the page aren't they?

sumodaz · Jun 23, 2006

Im suprised by the poll results and the negative comments. I think its a really well done site, as long as its kept up to date.

webit · Jun 23, 2006

sumodaz said:
Im suprised by the poll results and the negative comments. I think its a really well done site, as long as its kept up to date.

Which bits of the site did you like and why?

sumodaz · Jun 23, 2006

The main point is that it has plenty of content. The design may not be that fancy but its clear and easy to navigate.

compare it to our local site.
http://www.maccdirectory.co.uk/
terrible!!

BlackBerryUK · Jun 23, 2006

I agree - it does have A LOT of useful info.. she asked if it was sticky.. and thats why everyone gave negative feedback as to why they wouldnt keep coming back or maybe add it to their favourties...

i really think the main homepage needs the majority of the work...and if Salima checks the drop off rate from the main homepage and compares it to other pages on the site, she will notice it would be high.

webit · Jun 23, 2006

BlackBerryUK said:
I agree - it does have A LOT of useful info.. she asked if it was sticky.. and thats why everyone gave negative feedback as to why they wouldnt keep coming back or maybe add it to their favourties...

i really think the main homepage needs the majority of the work...and if Salima checks the drop off rate from the main homepage and compares it to other pages on the site, she will notice it would be high.

And thats the problem. As it's a template over which you have no control for the most part you're stuck with it.

BlackBerryUK · Jun 23, 2006

Hi Again,

this page have 3 images missing under the heading (web results)

http://www.kingstonontheweb.com/directory/showsitescatid-501_cat-Bed+and+Breakfast

thanks
T

ps: you might get more ideas in terms of layout and presentation of info from this site: www.brightonlife.com

Salima · Jun 23, 2006

webit said:
And thats the problem. As it's a template over which you have no control for the most part you're stuck with it.

Wow! How observant and constructive of you to say that. I think I will benefit alot from that comment.

webit · Jun 23, 2006

Salima said:
Wow! How observant and constructive of you to say that. I think I will benefit alot from that comment.

emm.

If you read my comment in context it was in reply to Blackberrys point (hence my quoting him in my post) - not directed at you hence I wouldn't really expect you to benefit from the comment at all.

Did you benifit from my origional comments on this thread about the page being too busy? I still am happy to help in response to your origional question but there really is no point in getting the arse if you dont like comments (which you asked for in the first place!).

Salima · Jun 23, 2006

webit said:
emm.

If you read my comment in context it was in reply to Blackberrys point (hence my quoting him in my post) - not directed at you hence I wouldn't really expect you to benefit from the comment at all.

Did you benifit from my origional comments on this thread about the page being too busy? I still am happy to help in response to your origional question but there really is no point in getting the arse if you dont like comments (which you asked for in the first place!).

Mmmmm...... true but I guess that's because what I asked for originally is this:

"If you were a Kingston Local and you came across my site, would you come back? ...........Pls bear in mind that there is ALOT of sections to it and that is unavoidable so pls if you can avoid focusing on that part! Anything constructive that I can add or change ... I'm all ears!"

And your comment of:
"And thats the problem. As it's a template over which YOU have no control for the most part YOU'RE stuck with it."

even though was not directed at me obviously applies to me right? so sorry but yes.....I guess I did get arsey about that.

I did take on board your original comments and am definetely working on decrowding the site.

Thanks

webit · Jun 23, 2006

Salima said:
And your comment of:
"And thats the problem. As it's a template over which YOU have no control for the most part YOU'RE stuck with it."

even though was not directed at me obviously applies to me right? so sorry but yes.....I guess I did get arsey about that.

NO! - it was a general comment about people who implement this template are stuck with the limitations. But fair enough - this is exactly the reason why so many people have stopped responding when people ask for comments on their site. I can now see why they have stopped.

I hope it all works out for you.

Salima · Jun 23, 2006

webit said:
this is exactly the reason why so many people have stopped responding when people ask for comments on their site. I can now see why they have stopped.

I hope it all works out for you.

Great - thanks for the guilt trip!

Seriously though....I dont think that is completely fair is it? I've seen alot of feedback on the formus and I just think sometimes people can be a bit harsh and disdainful with their comments rather than being constructive and useful which is what I think we all want.

I have received alot of negative feedback on here and I am very grateful for it(including some of yours and cjd's, also Steve's, Mike's, Blakcberry's e.t.c.) and have not got the 'arse' about it because of the way it was delivered. but I hope you can appreciate it's hard to swallow and not feel demoralised when your site gets (what I strongly feel) are badly constructed comments or implications like "begging for business" or "why not just use thomweb.com instead" without due consideraton or justification.

I'm sorry if i offended you, I understand now that you weren't trying to target me but just as others have a right to be honest and say what they want about the site, people asking for feedback do also have a right to comment on the comments they receive don't they even if it means getting upset - it's only natural when for most of us our businesses are our babies? I certainly dont want to appear to be a contributing reason towards people not giving feedback when asked. I think this aspect is an invaluable part of these forums.

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